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Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

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Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by J.B. on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 2:11 pm

If a neighbor thinks you are suspicious, your home can be searched by police while you are not there. If you are NEXT DOOR to an investigation, your home can be searched, too. Even if there is no warrant.

We will no doubt soon see this in Canada and the United States. The U.K. already allows some of this.


The argument, ' if you have nothing to fear you are ok' seems over.

....police in this state will soon be able to enter adjoining properties
secretly, including those belonging to neighbours who have nothing to
do with the investigation. They will be able to impersonate other
people to get themselves in the door.



Secret searches spreading too far



This week, the upper house of State Parliament is expected to consider
a law to allow police to enter in secret and search the homes of those
suspected of committing crimes. The bill was pushed through the lower
house this month and, assuming it passes, will allow general duties
police to use covert search warrants to investigate a range of ordinary
criminal offences, which can be heard by a jury and are punishable by
seven or more years in prison.

Not only suspected offenders and those suspected of helping them are covered - so are the neighbours.

Such intrusive and easily abused powers are currently limited to
terrorism-related investigations, and can be used only by the NSW
Police Counter-Terrorism Co-ordination Command and the NSW Crime
Commission.

Some of the offences covered by the laws are undoubtedly serious,
including homicide and kidnapping. But under the new regime, covert
warrants can also be used to investigate such minor offences as damage
to property - even unintentional damage - caused during a public
disturbance. If the Government was prepared to debate the bill
publicly, it might use the Cronulla riots as justification. It might
use the 1970s Springbok tour, the 1960s Vietnam moratorium marches, or
even the waterfront dispute.

Or perhaps, as the Police Commissioner, Andrew Scipione, said during
the APEC lock-down in September 2007, this is just the way we do
business in NSW now. If that is so, police in this state will soon be
able to enter adjoining properties secretly, including those belonging
to neighbours who have nothing to do with the investigation. They will
be able to impersonate other people to get themselves in the door.

They will be allowed to conceal that they have paid a secret visit, for
up to three years. What comfort to know that three years on, the
occupier is entitled to a letter in the mail saying the family home was
subjected to a secret and entirely legal break-and-enter by the
constabulary. Either that, or that they were conned into opening the
door by an undercover cop.

The Premier, Nathan Rees, was quick to identify members of organised
crime syndicates and drug traffickers as some of those whose premises
could be searched without their knowledge. This is clever semantics:
the bill says crime is organised if it is done more than once and
involves more than one person - hardly what we think of as organised
crime - and its reach extends to minor personal drug cultivation, well
below the trafficable quantity.

On one view, the bill appears to be little more than a clumsy
overreaction to a setback police suffered in May 2007, when the covert
execution of search warrants relating to an alleged drug importation
went horribly wrong. The affidavit relied upon to issue the warrants
was sworn by Mark Standen, then assistant director, investigations,
with the NSW Crime Commission, now himself facing serious drug
importation charges.

In the Supreme Court, Justice Peter Hall held that although the
warrants were validly granted, their covert execution was unlawful. He
noted Justice Michael Kirby's remarks in an earlier case: that
protecting individuals' privacy against the arbitrary use "of the great
power of entry and search" is critical.

By applying the investigative techniques of counter-terrorism to
ordinary criminal offences, the bill strips away that protection. In
this, the state merely follows the Commonwealth's lead. In 2005,
anti-terrorism legislation introduced the power to obtain documents
from innocent third parties relating to a "serious offence", which it
went on to define as any federal offence punishable by imprisonment for
two years or more, other than a serious terrorism offence.

These developments follow a familiar pattern: when the US introduced a
law authorising the use of covert warrants in the wake of September 11
under the Patriot Act, it was not restricted to terrorism, but applied
to any federal offence.

Some may argue that the bill provides adequate protection, because
police seeking covert warrants will have to apply to a Supreme Court
judge. But only judges who agree to be nominated and are approved in
writing by the Attorney- General will be declared "eligible", and the
Attorney-General will be able to revoke a judge's eligibility at the
stroke of a pen. As a result, the bill risks chipping away at public
faith that the administration of justice is free from the taint of
executive interference.

Again, there is a precedent for this in the Commonwealth's
anti-terrorism laws. They introduced a similar mechanism of appointment
for those authorised to issue continued preventive detention orders:
the ones which allow a detained husband to tell his wife that he is
safe, but forbid him from saying anything further. Even the
Commonwealth did not give the Attorney-General power to revoke an
appointment at will.

The risk that long-standing rights and protection will leach out of the
general law, under the influence of anti-terrorism arguments, was not
unforeseen. When introducing covert search warrant provisions to NSW
for the first time in 2005, the then attorney-general, Bob Debus,
reassured Parliament they were not intended for general policing,
because general criminal activity as opposed to terrorism had never
sought mass-killing, widespread destruction, or wholesale disruption of
society. Debus observed that law enforcement agencies already had a
wide array of investigative powers.

While Queensland and Victoria have legislation authorising covert
warrants, the power is limited in Victoria to terrorism offences, and
Queensland has a public interest monitor. There are no such limits,
checks or balances in the NSW bill. Its cumbersome title, the Law
Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Amendment (Search Powers)
Bill, is a misnomer: it is long on power, but short on responsibility.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/secret-searches-spreading-too-far-20090322-95kb.html?page=-1

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by J.B. on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 2:18 pm

This article, by the way, is a perfect textbook example of how intrusive "terrorism" laws can be easily expanded to other offenses, and utterly crush the justice system as we know it.

Please really read this article. It is real life, and it threatens all of us.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by Aeros on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 3:11 pm

We won't see this in the USA because its blatantly unconstitutional. Autralias government can get away with this however because their governmental framework is governed by British common law.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by Isaksson on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 3:29 pm

The police at the station and they don't look freindly!

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by J.B. on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 4:18 pm

Aeros wrote:We won't see this in the USA because its blatantly unconstitutional. Autralias government can get away with this however because their governmental framework is governed by British common law.


Right. Kind of like how we weren't supposed to have wire taps on phones without a warrant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrantless_wiretapping

(Or how about US Spies plying their trade on American citizens?)





Kind of like how all American citizens have a guaranteed right to an attorney?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)



Kind of like how we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318478,00.html

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by mexicantornado on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 4:52 pm

We will no doubt soon see this in Canada and the United States.


Is it just me or is JB being more and more like RoB and Kreel in his insane leaps of logic?

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by J.B. on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 5:06 pm

MT, have you been IGNORING what is going on?

The following are ALL actual initiatives IN PROGRESS right now:


a.) camera systems in multiple cities designed to keep a running archive of thousands of miles of streets and roads; the cameras are designed to "track fleeing criminals with ultra high resolution, and the ability to redirect law enforcment on intercept trajectories". This proposal far exceeds anything else seen before, since it will allow remote viewers to scan entire cities to extremely fine detail, and will subject citizens to a level of scrutiny never before seen in the United States. This will include not only the 2% of the US most affected by crime, but also the other 98% that is relatively safe. The archives will be kept indefinitely, including the intrusive and invasive footage. Planners suggest such a system could eventually lead to a nation-wide network, to be tied into Homeland Security, compatible with border-area surveillance systems currently being erected.

b.) gun ownership universal databse, Washington DC; EVERY gun owner in the country will be required to register under pain of severe penalty and or imprisonment; this will lift the longstanding practice of leaving this matter to individual states. The new Federal database will contain fingerprints and "recent photographs" of the weapon owner.

c.) instituting "Firearms Insurance", another subtle yet significant encroachment on firearms owners' right to keep and bear arms, or at least those that are financially challenged

d.) Department of Defense initiative to take spent ammunition cartridges from military bases and RECYCLE them as scrap brass. This ended the practice of selling those spent casings to US re-loaders, who process the brass into target-practice ammunition. The move has been temporarily halted by several Senators, who cite the expected spike in the price of ammunition, and have reprimanded The White House over it.



What part of what I am saying is a "leap of logic"?

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by cheese and whine on Mon 23 Mar 2009, 5:36 pm

MT, you need to open your eyes for a minute. Neither side in the congress care a bit about you or I.

19/20 of every law or bill passed effects average citizens not at all, or in a negative way.

Trillions upon Trillions of $$ being crapped away, not letting the system purge the bad banks and mortgages from the economy is only prolonging and intensifying this recession (soon to be depression).

I am not on the Kreel or RoB wavelength yet, but I can see some of their points now. I still think they are both nuts, but they have some valid points also.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by J.B. on Mon 08 Feb 2010, 2:08 pm

Wow.

As time goes by we see more of this than ever before.

Seems like these concerns from a mere 6 to 9 months are gaining traction.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by garyd on Fri 12 Feb 2010, 5:04 am

Uh JB the only phone calls that were being tapped were from overseas. That was what the argument was about. They weren't and couldn't tap phone calls originating within US boarders without The Arisa courts approval.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by lizzy8203 on Fri 12 Feb 2010, 8:48 pm

I was watching a frontline episode on how all of our calls are being listened to..even the people working for the agency were bothered by having to listen to individuals personal calls...Ill have to look into it and remeber the name of that episode I was watching..but they have been monitoring our calls for some time in the name of preventing terrorism.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by lizzy8203 on Fri 12 Feb 2010, 8:58 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9jG4R6Yp9k

I believe this is the one...I have watched so many frontlines I cant remember for sure, and right now I am at a location with no speakers so ?? either way it has some pretty interesting info on the subject at hand.

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Re: Australia: Search Homes of "Suspicious" People

Post by garyd on Sat 13 Feb 2010, 7:57 am

I watched 2 of them. Pretty interesting stuff. The thing to keep in mind here is that data mining is now a constant feature of life on the WWW. Companies do it hell even your browser does it some what in a limited way in order to let you get to sites you might be interested in.

Didn't see anything in either vid about Arisa violation however...

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